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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Loading SSys Schwerlastwagens
Greifscotland
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: August 05, 2015
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Posted: Friday, June 14, 2019 - 10:35 PM UTC
Hello
I started long time ago, but I have little time (children);)
but I will be happy to see you build a Mercedes
finally, there will be 2 wagons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/152677084@N07/35907514486/in/album-72157683906317613/
and some of my rail toys;)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/152677084@N07/albums/72157683906317613
Regards
SpeedyJ
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Posted: Friday, June 14, 2019 - 11:25 PM UTC
YES my Modeling Candy has arrived. A quick Skype to my staff and it was delivered right to my doorstep. Thanks Miss Pan & Mr. Weerachart.
Will do an inbox review later this week, first have to sort out some other things.

Modeling Extasy.
Took a peek inside, I was very interested in the new tracks, so took them out first to compare with MiniArt tracks.
Manual is pretty cool. Looks like Sabre Models had a real kick in the bottom for presentation. It's a Pro Kit after all.
Will show all of this candy later on this week.
I'm a very happy man now.

Kind regards,

Robert Jan
Dioramartin
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Posted: Saturday, June 15, 2019 - 04:32 PM UTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP_NE4XZGAc

SpeedyJ
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Posted: Saturday, June 15, 2019 - 04:51 PM UTC
SpeedyJ
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 03:31 AM UTC
Ok. Let's start with opening the box and see what is inside.
I will give some comments on the manual at first and on Friday the sprue count and details, but during the build it will have more effect I believe to get really into detail. Anyway, here we go.

Manual for the SSyms 80tons.
Front page, has some class of its own. big improvement over their earlier releases!

Page 0 & 1. Symbols for do's & don't, inventory and the first 3 steps of assembly.

Page 2 & 3. Building steps 4 up to 8. Lots of zooming for attention on cutting and applying PE. Tricky is the fact that Sabre uses only 2 moulded sides for the main structure of the wagon, multiplied by 2. This makes you clean the inside of both sides. They explain that in color and where to cut, big improvement. SSys kit was very vague on that part of the build.

Page 4 & 5.
Covers building steps 9 up to 11. From this point assembly for me is a point of discussion. They want you to install the braking system, which is not correct.
In a later post I will explain why. A lot of PE needs to be installed for the loading deck, looks very good!
Page 6 up to 9.
Same as the above. A lot of detail comes from PE and nice detailed parts in styrene. when finished the steps 12 up to 16, the loading deck will almost be complete.


Very big plus are the detail pictures of the real thing.

Page 10 up to 13.
Step 17 finally makes you start with the 3 axle bogies. In a later post I will show the real thing from a German archive site. They did a real cool job on the outside details. But that's about it, except from the brake shoes and triangles, there is no further detail. When completing the the 2 bogies, final details come to the sides of the wagon and loading deck. All very well explained with super detailed drawings, optional setups of transport equipment, etc. When step 26 is finished, the deck is connected with the bogies.


Page 14 & 15.
These pages show the final assembly of the SSyms.
I am in awe how they presented that. Tips and tricks for the coupling, making a realistic air hose, the wooden stoppers and how to secure a Tiger to the loading deck. Nice close ups from the real thing combined with good instructions.


Last pages have no numbers and show marking & painting scheme. Colors needed are given in: Color Name, FS/RAL Standard, and paint codes from VIC. Tamiya - Mr. Hobby - Valleyo.


Backside of the manual presents the CAD's we already know with some commercial announcements of course.



So tomorrow I will show the count of sprue and some interesting details on parts and a comparison for the tracks provided with two other brands.
Speaking of tracks, Sabre provides a separate sheet for assembly.
Straight tracks

How to make a radius from straight tracks

There is also a correction, size credit card, sheet for step 8 & 9.


More to come on Friday.

Now something a little different.
Whilst doing the dishes earlier this week, I decided to remove the smudge from both Tigers. Cleaned them and gave them a decent base coat.
Thanks Dioramartin to give me the insight / kick in the ass.
Much happier with the Tigers now.
Tiger 1




Tiger 2





Any comment or advise is welcome to push my lacking skills, building decent Tigers to higher levels.

Kind regards,

Robert Jan
165thspc
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 06:59 AM UTC
This is probably more directed to the Sabre people themselves; do you as yet have a US distributor?

I am working with a large, highly involved US Hobby Retailer in Louisville, KY. (Scale Reproductions) They cannot seen to find this item anywhere in their system of distributors.
Dioramartin
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 11:29 PM UTC
If they ever hand out awards for best Instruction manual that one gets my vote – unbelievable…and assuming you’re correct in your corrections they ought to hire you! Interesting they titled the kit “Genuine Ssyms”, a polite way of saying all other versions are crap? I don’t claim to be a Tiger expert either but they (?) look great to me – nice zim too, eroded in places but plausible for maybe 6 months of service. But hang on is this one tank in reverse development or two? One’s got transport tracks but the other doesn’t…one’s got zim turret & bare hull and the other vice versa…my brain hurts
SpeedyJ
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 11:51 PM UTC
Hi Tim. Tigers are Fehrmann versions. I bought 2 kits from RFM and one ATAK Zimmerit Conversion set. As shown they are correct with the Zimmerit, only missing the camo scheme. But I can switch both turrets to make two early versions. One will be ready for transport on the SSyms, the other one stands waiting for track change on the platform with loads of other vehicles. That's my plan. I cleaned them to create a group that travels to another front. Probably from the East to the West. Ukraine - France, 1944. Still busy with research on that.

More about the SSyms tonight.

Now I have to get me some Friday evening Thai food and some beer.. You have a nice weekend! Thanks for the heads up!

Cheers
SpeedyJ
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Posted: Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - 02:48 AM UTC
Hello all.
Please have some patience with second part of the review. It's been a wonderful weekend, sunny days and the humidity was just perfect to do a lot of airbrushing. Very rare in Thailand during the rain season. Had to take this opportunity.
Will show some pictures of what I did later, as it is all part of waiting for that train.
Let us start with the bogies for the SSyms.
Little history...
Sorry it's in German language.

Deutsche Reichsbahn/Deutsche Bundesbahn, Bauart 928
Für den Transport schwerer Panzerfahrzeuge wurde 1942 die Flachwagen des Gattung SSyms Köln (zuletzt: Sammp 705) entwickelt und gebaut. Auf der Basis der Konstruktionsprinzipien der zweiachsigen Pressblech-Drehgestelle der Einheitsbauart (Pressblech-Bauweise, Laschengehänge) wurde für diese Wagen ein dreiachsiges Drehgestell entwickelt.
Diese Drehgestelle, die bei der Deutschen Bundesbahn unter der Bauartnummer 928 geführt wurden, erhielten teils 7-, teils 8-lagige Federn. Nach dem Zweiten Weltkrieg traten auch bei diesen Drehgestellen - ähnlich wie bei den zweiachsigen Pressblech-Drehgestellen - Risse auf. Daraufhin wurden die Drehgestelle an verschiedenen Stellen, äußerlich sichtbar zum Teil an den Untergurten, verstärkt.
Ähnliche Drehgestelle wurden für Kondenstender gebaut. Diese Drehgestelle erhielten 10-lagige Blattfedern (Querschnitt 90 x 13 mm). Die mittlere Achse war nicht gebremst. Weitere Unterschiede bestanden in der Ausführung der inneren Rahmenbauteile. Anfang der Fünzigerjahre wurden die Kondenstender zu Selbstentlade-Großraumwagen KKt 44, KKt 46 und OOt 53 umgebaut.
spacer.png



3-achsiges Pressblech-Drehgestell Bauart 928 nach Zeichnung Fwg 506.04.1
Laufkreisdurchmesser: 940 mm, 7-lagige Blattfedern, gestreckte Länge 1000 mm, Querschnitt: 90 x 13 mm
Skizze: Hermann Jahn, auf Grundlage der Zeichnung in der DV 939

Following Nacho Roches on Missing-Lynx, he started this Drehgestell from scratch. Amazing details he showed from references. Comparing to the old Trumpeter kit he managed to get it almost perfect. Almost? By the time it became very interesting, I think he was invited to join Sabre Models team for technical assistance and support. His name is proudly presented on the box, together with Nick Tebbs. No further activity on that build, hope he will pick it up some time in future.
The loading bed for this wagon were also a big deal of the findings and discussion in that build log.
I bought the T-Model release of the SSyms, just before Sabre announced this kit and I had some good hopes. A clear / blanco kit, ideal for scratch building, like the former Ssys from Sabre.
I will build those for sure, maybe for comparison and they can / will lean on the clear details shown from the Sabre kit.
Now if you look at the drawing and watch the wheels, you might want to see if that is represented correctly in 1/35 scale. NO!
More on that soon. I have to do some clearance on my desk tomorrow and lay out the tracks to explain this.

Kind regards,

Robert Jan
SpeedyJ
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Posted: Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - 02:00 AM UTC
Let's continue the review with the provided tracks from Sabre Models.
Like mentioned before I was very focussed on their new tracks. My first hurrays, these fit with the Miniart European Gauge.


Left are the MiniArt tracks connected to the new Sabre tracks. Fit is perfect. On this picture you see also the different molding of the sleepers. MiniArt looks are from new and solid Oak sleepers. Sabre molds a more worn and damaged sleeper. Also the size difference of the bolts is very noticeable. Mounting plates are same size.
Sabre provides both bolts mounted on either side of the track. MiniArt makes you add a separate bolt on the inside on each track mount. Nice! Will explain later why.

Positioning wheels on the new tracks. One would expect that fits. No!


Front axle comes from Thunder Models G10 wagon. Fit out of the box is ok. In the back you see the old axle version from Sabre. To narrow and it slips of the rail heads. My finished bogies both have the same problem.


This is the underside of Sabre Model's Ommr Flatbed. Wheels have extended hubs on the inside. This makes them adjustable, (hurrays part 2) and it is good to know the SSyms kit has them too. Hurray!


Fit is just perfect!


Before I switch subject it is important to know that the old tracks from Sabre can not be mixed with the new ones.
The are simply different in dimension. The old rail is 1.5 mm higher and the sleepers are longer and are missing the bolt details.


Comparing with the new ones, it's obvious you want them.


Last but not least. A third player has also some very nice detail. The dark grey tracks and sleepers are from T-Model. Taking a close look you see the problem, these are too wide. Sleepers are very well molded though, but it would cost a lot of work to fit them with the Sabre or MiniArt tracks.



Having the SSyms from both brands, T-Model and the new Sabre Model kit, it is clear you want to compare some basic sizes.

Bogie sides from T-Model and Sabre Model


On top the T-Model version, bottom the Sabre Model rendition. Besides the color and different ways of detailing, they are like twins.

Siamese Twins

The loading beds, perfect in size, but different in details. Sabre is more complete in this case comparing to the T-Model version.


Left the Sabre bed, right the T-Model bed. Both tapered, width and length are the same. Opening at the tapered side of the Sabre bed is for detailing the mechanism for securing the vehicles on top.

First jump to conclusions from my side. The tracks from Sabre are ok, which also goes for the MiniArt. Combining them would be easy, but I doubt it looks realistic.
So I have to make a decision which one to use. T-Model and old Sabre are no option, except for the sleepers from T-Model. With some scratch work and new mounting plates it might make them useful.

Part 3 will follow later on this evening, have some house holding tasks to finish,



Cheers,

Robert Jan
petbat
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Posted: Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - 09:30 AM UTC
Great review Robert. Enjoying the detailed comparisons.

I read somewhere from a German Soldier's memoir, that in Russia the rails were joined on the same sleeper, not offset on other sleepers as most other countries do. Is that 'same sleeper' join what is depicted in the kits?

The offset join is what creates the 'clickety-clack' sound of a train moving - in the book it said in Russia trains had a 'clunk-clunk' sound.
SpeedyJ
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Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 03:27 AM UTC
Third and completing the review for the kit is showing what the sprue count and quality is.
Yesterday I already made some comparison with T-Model. I'll leave that out for today. I decided to build them side by side, that will be a visible and hopefully better approach.
Sprue with tracks. Talked about it yesterday. If you look close you see LEGO like points for stacking. Part of very smart engineering.


Sabre Models only do this? No T-Model had that already. See the pics below, top is Sabre Models, bottom is T-Model.

LEGO Science...


DUPLO Science...
Think this needs some BIG HURRAYS.

Next parts on a Sprue! You get and need 2 of these sets. Dark plastics are added to complete the older molding from earlier released models, like SSys and Ommr.


For the Platform or Loading bed, detail for the mechanism to secure freight and some beams / crossbeams etc. sprue count is 2.


You even get some spares.... Only one wheel extra?.. Engineering at it's best!

Sprue that also comes in a group of 4.
A lot of parts needed for the basic structure come from these 4. Detail is good overall although the plastic is a little soft.
PE is used to add that extra detail nowadays. Sabre Models managed to add good detail using the PE. Quality of the PE is good, not to thin like e.g. Bronco (sorry for that FAB).


Do we have something more to show?
Yes! That detail under the platform, called the brake system.


This is what Sabre Models adds to the kit. Sprue comes from the Ommr (Triangle shape belly). You see some parts that actually are ok. Valves and also the Handbrake installation, which can be folded down. The detail of parts is ok, but the brake system parts need a total different plan / layout for locating them under the platform. For the Air Tank I even doubt if it is the right size for such a big and heavy wagon (means I'm pretty sure about that).

So, last but not least...
This is how it should look like.


Ok, this looks very complicated and where to begin this jungle of levers, tanks, valves, bolts and nuts?
Shown is the Hildebrandt Knorr (HIK) brake system. In this case for a 2 axle wagon.
Principle of Levers, Valves , Push rods and Air Tanks are the same. When building the kit it is very easy to show where you reference points are to create a realistic brake system like this.
The original PDF let you build this layer over layer. Will show that during the build.
BTW...I got this PDF as a free download from ASOA, a German Railroad Modeling E-shop. Also a GREAT source for other detail stuff!

Next time I hope to show some initial cutting and preparations in plastics and some dry fitting of parts for the SSyms. Looking forward to that.

Kind regards,

Robert Jan
Dioramartin
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Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 11:02 PM UTC
Stunning Robert Jan, overall Sabre would be my choice by some distance & not just for the genius sprue-stacking. You’re going to have a total blast putting this together, as will we observers
SpeedyJ
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Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 11:37 PM UTC
Thanks Tim. First time a did a sort of review. Now it's time to prepare for a detailed build. I have some plans for that and the type of model is different to armor for example. First some cleaning to do on my workbench, it's crowded with all kinds of stuff. It rains so a perfect evening to organize my desk.

Kind regards,

Robert Jan
ayovtshev
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Posted: Friday, June 28, 2019 - 04:05 AM UTC
While I'm in no way a railroad modeller-I look in awe to your undertaking, Robert!

That Hildebrand Knorr Bremse fuer Gueterwagen makes my fingers itch

Following this build!

SpeedyJ
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Posted: Friday, June 28, 2019 - 05:16 PM UTC
Thanks for the heads up. I made s start today with wooden bed of the SSyms. A lot work for my scriber, as there is no detail for the wood on the underside.
When there is something to show that makes sense, I will get some pictures uploaded.

Bye bye for now.

Robert Jan
165thspc
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 01:03 AM UTC
You might substitute "distressed" and stained strip plastic, or even real wood strips for the flooring.

(You have probably considered and discussed this elsewhere in this thread, If so I apologize for the repeat.)


Heavily modified car under construction.


Individually stained and distressed deck planking almost complete.


Underside view of stained deck planking.

SpeedyJ
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 03:47 AM UTC
As mentioned, I made a start today. Kicks off with scribing the underside of the flatbed. Used the parts that fill the tapered, a double planked part, as a guide.
Plastic is quite soft, so it went real fast doing two sides.

First plastics to glue on are the base plates for the bogies. some scraping and sanding was needed to get it all flat.
Rest is pretty straight forward, so I finished the first 3 steps today.





Tomorrow the steps will include the cross sections and the fronts.
I will need the sides to figure out if all is square and lined up.

Micheal, I considered adding real wood, but having the scriber and a sharp needle, this works ok for me. Takes some time and it still needs more detail, but works ok.

Kind regards,

Robert Jan
panamadan
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 03:55 AM UTC
Love watching this build.
Dan
SpeedyJ
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 04:03 AM UTC
Thanks Dan, stay tuned as they say! More fun to come this weekend.

Cheers as the Dutch Ladies got to the Semi Finals this afternoon against Italy. Magic!
165thspc
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 04:15 AM UTC
I was planning on doing the individual planks treatment when I build this car but now seeing your results I might switch to your scribed solution.

(p.s. You might want to sand that center seam in the decking just a little bit more so it meets more squarely and doesn't end up standing out as an actual seam between the two pieces.)
panamadan
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 04:26 AM UTC
Robert,
Your build has caused me to look closely at a 1/35 boxcar and it seeks that there are a few out there now.
Dan
SpeedyJ
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 04:42 AM UTC
Micheal, the two sides are still loose parts. First I need to add some other cross sections. Planning all the airlines I can not glue them at this stage.

Thanks for the Eagle Eye, appreciated!

Kind regards,

Robert Jan
165thspc
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 04:43 AM UTC
I just love all the accurate and prototypical casting detail this car has! There is more detail under the car than above! (Which now includes your very nice scribed wood decking detail as well.)

For myself I am considering a train wreck / aerial bombing diorama just in order to show off the underbody detail of this car!
SpeedyJ
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 10:36 PM UTC
Looking forward to that Michael.
As I discovered the problems with the wheels, the brake pads are the main issue. Will have to find out how to fix that.
What I wanted to add into my first review, but didn't, is that I don't understand why Sabre Models doesn't offer the Turned Brass Wheels as a bonus. Very tempted to buy a couple of sets, together with some more Rail Track Sets.
Wheels look very good from pictures. See if if they give some info on measurements for the items.

Today no SSyms, busy with cleaning, finishing other projects, waiting to get loaded on that train.

Kind regards,

Robert Jan